Latah County Sheriff’s Office
Case File #2005-01065 Report #3
Detective Margaret Lehmbecker
03-22-2005
Page 1 of 7On 03-22-2005, at about 1000 hours, with the help of Health and Welfare case worker Jackie Strain, I interviewed [redacted], a 10 year old girl) at Health and Welfare in Moscow, Latah County, Idaho. [redacted] and her younger sister, [redacted] were in the playroom playing while I talked with their father, [Ground Zero Father] and Greg Dickinson in the lobby. [Ground Zero Father] went to the playroom to be with his daughter [redacted]. Dickison asked to observe from the observation room although I had previously advised this was not an ideal circumstance for a forensic interview.
Strain brought from the playroom into the interview room. Strain and I introduced ourselves to [redacted]. [redacted] was told that the interview was being recorded and Dickinson was in the observation room. [redacted] is in the 4th grade and attends [redacted] which is a school [redacted]. [redacted] lives at home with her mother, [redacted] and her father. [redacted] is the oldest and has two brothers, [redacted] and [redacted], and three sisters [redacted], [redacted] and [redacted].
[redacted] was told that if either of us made a mistake or was wrong it was alright for her to correct us. She was told that if she did not understand a question then it was okay to tell us that she did not understand the question. I told her that if she did not know an answer to a question that it was alright to say, “I don’t know” and that I did not want her to make guesses.
[redacted] understood the difference between a truth and a lie. She gave an example of a lie. “If he said that he didn’t steal money from a bank and he did.” [redacted] understands the difference between things that are real and not real. When asked if the tooth fairy was real or not she said, “Not real.”
[redacted] was asked if she knew why she came to talk with us. She said that she knew why. [redacted] asked what we wanted to know. Strain asked if something had happened to her. [redacted] said that her family has a rule that boys are not allowed up stairs. [redacted] said that last year “he came and was doing this to my bottom while I was sleeping.” [redacted] raised her hand up with her palm facing down and squeezed her fingers together. I asked her, “Doing what?” [redacted] demonstrated again what it was that Steven had done to her bottom. Strain asked who he was. [redacted] said, “Steven.” When asked what Steven’s last name was, [redacted] said, “Sitler.” [redacted] continued, “I looked down and I didn’t know it was him and then I figured out it was him so I scooted to the other side of the bed so he couldn’t reach me.” [redacted] said that she fell back to sleep and when she woke up Steven was not there. [redacted] said that this year she had a friend, [redacted], staying the night at her house because [redacted] parents were gone and “the same thing happened to her.” [redacted] was asked when [redacted] stayed the night. [redacted] thought for a moment and said last month. [redacted] said that [redacted] was on the top bunk and woke up with Steven on her bed. [redacted] did not know what to do so she got in bed with [redacted] and woke her up. I asked [redacted] if Steven was there when she woke up. [redacted] said, “Yeah, I thought, well she [redacted] didn’t know what to do
Latah County Sheriff’s Office
Case File #2005-01065 Report #3
Detective Margaret Lehmbecker
03-22-2005
Page 2 of 7and didn’t know what to do.” [redacted] said that [redacted] got into bed with her. [redacted] said at first she told her father that Steven was in their room and she did not tell him that Steven had gotten on the bed with [redacted], so “dad did not know what was going on. I didn’t tell him anything else.” When asked how her father knew, she said that [redacted] told her parents and [Kirk Family #2] parents talked with her parents.
[redacted] said that she knew Steven because he was a boarder and a family friend who went to the same church as they did. [redacted] said that Steven lived in Colville. [redacted] said that Steven had moved out this year because he had done something to her sister that made her upset so he had to move out. [redacted] said that she did not know what Steven did to her sister and her sister did not talk with her about it.
[redacted] was asked again about what happened a year ago when she woke up when Steven was in her room. [redacted] said that she was wearing her pajamas. [redacted] said that she was under the covers and Steven was on top of the covers. Strain switched back to what happened with [redacted] and asked [redacted] if [redacted] told her about what happened with her. [redacted] said that she had told her parents. I asked, “But [redacted] woke you up that night?” [redacted] said, “Yeah, she did.” [redacted] said that this time (with [redacted]) Steven “was actually on the bed, when he did it with me he was on the floor.” I asked [redacted] to help me understand. I asked her when she said this time if she meant the night that [redacted] stayed with her. [redacted] said that Steven was on the top bed with [redacted]. [redacted] woke her up and Steven was on the top bunk. [redacted] said that she did not know what to do so she told [redacted] to sleep with her. [redacted] said that Steven kept trying to get her to sit with him, but she would tell him no. Strain asked [redacted] if Steven was an adult or a child. [redacted] said that Steven was 20 years old.
I reminded [redacted] that she had told us that Steven kept asking her to sit with him and she would tell him no. [redacted] interrupted me and said, “But before then I did.” [redacted] said during the first year Steven lived at their house she would sit with him. I said, “So you’d sit with him.” [redacted] said she would sit with him when they read. [redacted] said that she told him that he was not her brother. Steven kept asking her why she would not sit with him and she said, “Because you’re not my brother.” I asked her if something happened that made her feel uncomfortable. [redacted] said, “Him asking me to do that.” I asked what he was asking her to do. She said, “Sit with him.” Strain asked [redacted] to explain what that means. [redacted] said, “On his lap.” Strain asked if Steven ever had her sit on his lap. [redacted] said, “Sometimes, but then I told him no.” [redacted] said that Steven did not ask her to do anything else that made her feel uncomfortable.
[redacted] said that Steven lived in their house for two years. [redacted] said that she knew him in Colville and they moved here. They wanted to have boarders and Steven’s father did some work on their basement so Steven got to live with them for free.
Latah County Sheriff’s Office
Case File #2005-01065 Report #3
Detective Margaret Lehmbecker
03-22-2005
Page 3 of 7I asked [redacted] what Steven looked like. [redacted] said that he has black hair with a black beard. I asked how long Steven’s hair was. She said, “It’s not long, it’s just sort of longer up in here.” [redacted] put both of her hands up next to each side of her head. She said that his hair was short on top. As I pointed to my shoulder I asked [redacted] again how long Steven’s hair was. [redacted] said, “It’s not that long.” I asked her if his hair was puffy on the sides. [redacted] said that when Steven takes a shower it “gets all spiky and stuff.” Steven was about as tall as [redacted] father.
[redacted] said that when Steven lived at their house his room was in the basement. [redacted] said that they now have three boarders, Jason, Austin and John. When they move out she is going to have a room down stairs because there is a new baby coming and they need more space. The boarder’s room is down stairs and they have their own bathroom. The boarders have access to the kitchen and laundry which are on the middle floor of the house. Right now [redacted] bedroom is on the 3rd floor of the house and the boarders are not allowed to go upstairs unless they ask.
I asked [redacted], “You said this happened to you last year. Did it only happen once?” [redacted] said, “Yeah.” I said, “Just the one time.” [redacted] said, “Yeah.” There was a brief silence and [redacted] said, “And nothing happened to [redacted] that I know of.” Strain asked [redacted] if something happened to [redacted] would she tell her parents? [redacted] said that her father has talked with them so they now know what to do if something like this happens again.
I asked [redacted] if Steven told her not to tell anyone. She said that he did not say anything to her. I asked [redacted] to try and help me figure out when Steven got on the bed with [redacted]. [redacted] said that she thought it was the last week of February 2005, and it was definitely on a Friday. [redacted] said that she did not know what time it was because she could not see her clock, but it was at night and she had been asleep. Strain asked [redacted] if she could remember what [redacted] was wearing. [redacted] thought that she was wearing a shirt and pants. [redacted] said that [redacted] sister [redacted] had also spent the night.
[redacted] was shown non-anatomical body drawings of a boy, both front and back. While Strain was drawing long hair on the drawing to represent a girl, [redacted] said, “I was lying on my stomach.” [redacted] named the fingers and toes. Strain circled the chest on the front side of the girl drawing and asked [redacted] was she called this part of the body. [redacted] said, “Breasts.” [redacted] called the front groin area, “bottom.” On the back of the drawing [redacted] called the buttocks a “rear” and the knee a calf. [redacted] was asked to point to the area on her body that Steven had touched. [redacted] pointed to the “rear” on the back side of the drawing and said, “That’s all.” When asked how that made her feel, [redacted] said “Embarrassed. Didn’t make me feel good.” [redacted] lowered her voice when she said she was embarrassed and it did not make her feel very good. [redacted] said, “I looked down and he was just there.” [redacted] said that at first
Latah County Sheriff’s Office
Case File #2005-01065 Report #3
Detective Margaret Lehmbecker
03-22-2005
Page 4 of 7she thought it was her nanny, but when she got close up to his face to see if it was her nanny she saw that it was Steven. [redacted] said, she didn’t know what Steven did because she moved and fell back to sleep. When she woke up Steven was gone. [redacted] said that she has never had anything like what Steven did happen to her before.
I asked who her nanny was. [redacted] said that her nanny is [redacted]. She said that her nanny does not live at their house anymore because she wants to live in Moscow. She said that she and her other siblings got to stay with [redacted] when her mother had [redacted] and she misses [redacted] because she does not get to see her much. [redacted] said that they were going to only get girls to board at their house now.
[redacted] said that she did not tell anyone other then [sic] her parents and that she feels safe at home. She has the support of her parents, their pastor and their church. The interview was ended and [redacted] was taken back to the play room where her father was waiting with [redacted].
We then talked with [redacted] little sister, [redacted] (a 6 year old girl.) Strain and I introduced ourselves to [redacted]. She was told that the interview was being recorded and Dickinson was in the observation room. [redacted] was told that it was alright to correct us if we were wrong or made a mistake. Strain told [redacted] that she was not in trouble.
We went through who lives with [redacted] in her house, which were the names as above, including her older sister, [redacted]. [redacted] also named the boarders, Jason Austin, and John who were older. I asked [redacted] if anyone else lived at her house. [redacted] said that Steven was a boarder but had moved out and went to live in Colville. [redacted] said “it was a short time ago” when Steven moved out. [redacted] said that Steven lived at her house for about two years and his room was downstairs. Jason, Austin and John have lived at her house for half a year.
Strain told [redacted] that it was important to tell the truth. [redacted] knew that if we called her a boy that it would be a lie. [redacted] also said that it would be a lie to tell her mother she did not take a cookie out of the cookie jar if she had. [redacted] understood that cartoons were made up and the tooth fairy was not real. I told [redacted] that if she did not understand a question then it was okay to tell us that she did not understand. I also told her that if she did not know the answer to a question then she was to say, “I don’t know” because we did not want her to guess.
On the front side of the non-anatomical girl drawing [redacted] named the hand, foot, knee, chest and bottom. On the back side of the non-anatomical girl drawing [redacted] named the elbow and the bottom. Since [redacted] named both the lower areas of the body normally covered by a bathing suit “bottom,” Strain asked if it was alright to add the distinction “front” bottom and “back” bottom. [redacted] said that it was alright to add the distinction because she did not have any other names that she called them.
Latah County Sheriffs Office
Case File #2005-01065 Report #3
Detective Margaret Lehmbecker
03-22-2005
Page 5 of 7[redacted] said that she “sort of’ knew why she was here to talk with us. Strain asked [redacted] to tell us about why she had come to talk with us. [redacted] said, “What do you mean?” Strain asked her if there was anything at her home that” made her feel unsafe. [redacted] said, “Yeah.” Strain asked [redacted] what made her feel uncomfortable. [redacted] said, “A boarder came upstairs and was on my bed and stuff.” Strain asked, “What boarder was that?” [redacted] said, “Steven.” Strain asked what Steven did upstairs. [redacted] said, “Laid down on my bed and he’s not allowed to be upstairs.” Strain asked [redacted] what happened. [redacted] said, “I don’t remember, well he slept with me and stuff.” Strain asked [redacted] to explain. [redacted] asked Strain what she meant by explain. Strain asked [redacted] if she was in bed. [redacted] said, “I was in my bed and he came up.” I asked her if it was at night. [redacted] nodded her head to indicate yes. Strain asked [redacted] if Steven was lying on the floor or on her bed. [redacted] said, “He was lying on my bed.” Strain asked [redacted] what she wore to bed. [redacted] said, “Pants and a shirt.” [redacted] said that Steven was wearing pants and a shirt. [redacted] said that she shared a room with her two brothers. Strain asked if her brothers were in the room when Steven was. [redacted] said, “Yeah, but they were asleep.” Strain asked how many times Steven was in her room. [redacted] said, “A lot.” I asked, “What’s a lot?” [redacted] said, “A couple years.” I said, “A couple years.” [redacted] said, “Like he did it last year, I think.” I asked [redacted] if Steven was in her room once or more then [sic] once. [redacted] said, “More than once, way more than once.”
I asked [redacted], “When Steven was in your bed, did anything happen that made you feel uncomfortable?” [redacted] said, “Sort of.” I asked her to tell me about it. [redacted] said, “Well, he’s touched me in parts I didn’t want him to.” Strain asked [redacted] to point out the place Steven touched her on the non-anatomical girl drawing that [redacted] had already named body parts on. [redacted] said, “I don’t really remember what parts he touched.” I asked [redacted] how she was feeling. She asked me what I meant. I asked her how she was feeling right now. [redacted] said, “Right now I feel fine.” Strain said, “You said Steven touched you. Is that right?” [redacted] nodded her head to indicate yes. Strain asked [redacted] what Steven touched her with. [redacted] said, “His hands.” Strain asked her if Steven touched her on top of her pajamas or under her pajamas. [redacted] said, “I don’t remember.” Strain asked if Steven ever asked her to touch him and [redacted] shook her head to indicate no. Strain asked if Steven told her not to tell anyone. [redacted] said, “I don’t think so.”
[redacted] said that her bedroom was upstairs and Steven’s was in the “basement with Jason.” Strain asked [redacted] if she told anyone about Steven touching her. [redacted] said, “Well, once my dad found out he asked me about this stuff and I told him what I knew.” Strain asked if she told anyone else. [redacted] said that her mother knew. Strain asked [redacted] if she told any of her friends. [redacted] said that she told [redacted]. [redacted] told us that Steven got on the top bunk with [redacted] and woke her up. [redacted] woke up [redacted] and [redacted] told their father. [redacted] said that [redacted] slept on the couch.
Latah County Sheriff’s Office
Case File #2005-0I 065 Report #3
Detective Margaret Lehmbecker
03-22-2005
Page 6 of 7I asked [redacted] what she told [redacted]. [redacted] said that she could not remember when she told [redacted]. [redacted] also could not remember when Steven got on the top bunk with [redacted]. I asked [redacted] what Steven looked like. [redacted] said that Steven had black hair and a beard. She said that she thought he was twenty years old and he lives in Colville.
I asked [redacted] if Steven told her not to tell anyone about the things that made her feel uncomfortable. She shook her head to indicate no. I asked [redacted] if Steven told her not to tell anyone else. [redacted] said, “No, he just told me to lay with him, but I didn’t want to.” I asked her what happened next. [redacted] said that sometimes she got up and went to her mother’s room and slept with her. Other times she just moved over to the other side of the bed. Strain asked [redacted] what happened next. [redacted] said, “I don’t know, he’d just lay there.” [redacted] said that when Steven laid with her he had all his clothes on and nodded her head yes to indicate that she had all her clothes on. [redacted] said that Steven would lie on top of the covers and she would lie under the covers. Strain asked [redacted] if there was anything else that made her feel uncomfortable. [redacted] said, I don’t think so.”
Strain told [redacted] that sometimes we talk with children about good touch and bad touch and asked her if she knew what a good touch was. [redacted] asked what she meant by a good touch. Strain asked [redacted] if her mom or dad gave her a hug or a kiss, would that be a good touch or a bad touch? [redacted] said, “Good.” Strain asked [redacted] if someone hit or kicked her, would that be a good touch or a bad touch? [redacted] said, “Bad.” Strain asked if anyone had touched her and told her to keep it a secret. [redacted] nodded her head to indicate no. Strain asked her if anyone had touched her on the chest. [redacted] said, “Yeah.” Strain asked, “When?” [redacted] said, “When he was laying with me.” Strain asked if the touching was under or on top of her clothing. [redacted] said, “I think it was on top.” Strain asked if anyone has touched her “front bottom” that made her feel uncomfortable. [redacted] said, “He did.” Strain asked her what he touched her with. [redacted] said, “His hands.” Strain asked [redacted] if the touching was on top of her pants. [redacted] said, “Under my pants, but on top of my underwear, I think.” Strain asked if anyone has touched her “back bottom” that has made her uncomfortable. [redacted] said, “Yeah.” Strain asked if the touching was on top of her pants. [redacted] said, “It was the same.” I told Strain that it had not been established who was doing the touching. Strain asked who touched her that made her feel uncomfortable. [redacted] said, “Steven.” Strain asked [redacted] if anyone else has ever touched her in those areas that made her feel uncomfortable. [redacted] shook her head to indicate no.
[redacted] said that the touching happened in the first year “I think almost every night.” The second year (this year) [redacted] said that the touching happened almost every night and was “always the same.” Steven did not change or do anything different when he touched her. Neither Steven nor [redacted] ever had their clothing off.
Latah County Sheriff’s Office
Case File #2005-01065 Report #3
Detective Margaret Lehmbecker
03-22-2005
Page 7 of 7and [redacted] her brothers who share a bedroom with her, never woke up while Steven was on her bed with her. [redacted] said that she could feel “his hand over my shirt” and she did not know when he stopped touching her. The touching only happened at night and it never hurt when she went to the bathroom. Strain asked [redacted] if there was anything else that we needed to know. [redacted] said, “I don’t think so.” She was told if she thought of anything else that she needed to talk about to let her parents know. Strain asked if this happened in any other places she lived. [redacted] said, “No.” [redacted] feels safe at home and can talk with her father if she ever feels unsafe again. She also said that she could talk with their pastor. The interview was ended and [redacted] went back to the playroom with [redacted].
Detective Margaret Lehmbecker/307
03-30-2005
Time Spent 19 hours